1 John 2:23 - Revision history

Nick: /* Commentary */

2024-07-26T22:16:07Z

Commentary

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:16, 26 July 2024
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	Another verse in the KJV with a lengthy italic section is [[2 Samuel 5:8]] where the words ''he shall be chief and captain.'' are italicized.		Another verse in the KJV with a lengthy italic section is [[2 Samuel 5:8]] where the words ''he shall be chief and captain.'' are italicized.

			The Westminster Reference Bible published by the [[Trinitarian Bible Society]] has only the word ‘but’ in italics.

	=====KJV Today=====		=====KJV Today=====

Nick: /* Commentary */

2024-07-26T21:37:51Z

Commentary

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:37, 26 July 2024
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	==Commentary==		==Commentary==
	The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of Greek manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus but rather strongly in the Latin. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.		The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of Greek manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus but rather strongly in the Latin. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.

			Another verse in the KJV with a lengthy italic section is [[2 Samuel 5:8]] where the words ''he shall be chief and captain.'' are italicized.

	=====KJV Today=====		=====KJV Today=====
	We now depart from the immediate context of the Comma and turn to 1 John 2:23b, as it proves two things. First, it proves that a Trinitarian clause could be expunged from 1 John in the majority of manuscripts. Second, it proves that the Vulgate can sometimes preserve authentic readings more accurately than can the majority of Greek manuscripts. 1 John 2:23 in the King James Bible says:		We now depart from the immediate context of the Comma and turn to 1 John 2:23b, as it proves two things. First, it proves that a Trinitarian clause could be expunged from 1 John in the majority of manuscripts. Second, it proves that the Vulgate can sometimes preserve authentic readings more accurately than can the majority of Greek manuscripts. 1 John 2:23 in the King James Bible says:

	:"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."		:"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

Nick: /* KJV Today */

2022-03-31T09:31:40Z

KJV Today

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:31, 31 March 2022
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	:"πας ο αρνουμενος τον υιον ουδε τον πατερα εχει" (Byzantine Majority Text)		:"πας ο αρνουμενος τον υιον ουδε τον πατερα εχει" (Byzantine Majority Text)

	The Geneva Bible in 1557 followed the majority of manuscripts here and left out the latter clause. If a Trinitarian clause in 1 John 2:23 could be lost in the majority of Greek manuscripts, and the Vulgate can be more reliable here, it is not much of a stretch to believe that the Johannine Comma was also lost in the majority of Greek manuscripts, and preserved by the Vulgate (as will be discussed below, the Vulgate preserves the Comma). The only difference between 1 John 2:23b and the Comma could be that the Comma was deleted earlier than 1 John 2:23b.[http://www.kjvtoday.~~com~~/home/the-father-the-word-and-the-holy-ghost-in-1-john-57#TOC-1-John-2:23b-was-corrupted-early ]		The Geneva Bible in 1557 followed the majority of manuscripts here and left out the latter clause. If a Trinitarian clause in 1 John 2:23 could be lost in the majority of Greek manuscripts, and the Vulgate can be more reliable here, it is not much of a stretch to believe that the Johannine Comma was also lost in the majority of Greek manuscripts, and preserved by the Vulgate (as will be discussed below, the Vulgate preserves the Comma). The only difference between 1 John 2:23b and the Comma could be that the Comma was deleted earlier than 1 John 2:23b.[http://www.kjvtoday.net/home/the-father-the-word-and-the-holy-ghost-in-1-john-57#TOC-1-John-2:23b-was-corrupted-early ]

	==Greek==		==Greek==

Nick at 13:37, 3 November 2018

2018-11-03T13:37:31Z

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	{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}		{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}

	* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[~~2192~~\|does~~]] [[3761\|~~not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]] [[2192\|has]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].		* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[3761\|the same does not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]] [[2192\|has]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].

	{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}		{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}

Nick: /* Commentary */

2018-11-03T12:46:42Z

Commentary

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 ==Commentary==
 The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of Greek manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus but rather strongly in the Latin. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.
 ==Greek==

Nick at 12:41, 3 November 2018

2018-11-03T12:41:28Z

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	{{Verses in 1 John 2}}		{{Verses in 1 John 2}}
	~~[[Image:1 John 2.23 KJV.JPG\|300px\|thumb\|right\|[[1 John 2:23]] in the [[1611 AD\|1611]] [[King James Version]]]]~~

	* '''[[1 John 2:23 Greek NT: Beza's Textus Receptus (1598)\|ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ Α΄ 2:23]]''' [[3956\|πᾶς]] [[3588\|ὁ]] [[720\|ἀρνούμενος]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[5207\|υἱὸν]], [[3761\|οὐδέ]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3962\|πατέρα]] [[2192\|ἔχει]] [[3588\|ὁ]] [[3671\|ὁμολογῶν]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3572\|υἱὸν]], [[2532\|καὶ]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3962\|πατέρα]] [[2192\|ἔχει]]		* '''[[1 John 2:23 Greek NT: Beza's Textus Receptus (1598)\|ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ Α΄ 2:23]]''' [[3956\|πᾶς]] [[3588\|ὁ]] [[720\|ἀρνούμενος]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[5207\|υἱὸν]], [[3761\|οὐδέ]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3962\|πατέρα]] [[2192\|ἔχει]] [[3588\|ὁ]] [[3671\|ὁμολογῶν]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3572\|υἱὸν]], [[2532\|καὶ]] [[3588\|τὸν]] [[3962\|πατέρα]] [[2192\|ἔχει]]

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	==Commentary==		==Commentary==
	The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.		The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of Greek manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus but rather strongly in the Latin. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.

	==Greek==		==Greek==
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	==English Translations==		==English Translations==
			[[Image:1 John 2.23 KJV.JPG\|300px\|thumb\|right\|[[1 John 2:23]] in the [[1611 AD\|1611]] [[King James Version]]]]
	* [[1395 AD\|1395]] So ech that denyeth the sone, hath not the fadir; but he that knowlechith the sone, hath also the fadir.([[Wyclif's Bible]] by [[John Wycliffe]])		* [[1395 AD\|1395]] So ech that denyeth the sone, hath not the fadir; but he that knowlechith the sone, hath also the fadir.([[Wyclif's Bible]] by [[John Wycliffe]])

Nick: /* Commentary */

2018-11-03T12:37:33Z

Commentary

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:37, 3 November 2018
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	==Commentary==		==Commentary==
	The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.		The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus. The reading is in the 1598 of Beza whose parallel Latin version contains the reading without italics. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.

	==Greek==		==Greek==

Nick: /* Greek */

2018-11-03T12:34:08Z

Greek

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:34, 3 November 2018
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	{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}		{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}

			==Commentary==
			The words "he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also" 1 John 2:23 were italicised because the King James translators initially did not find them in the majority of manuscripts and in earlier editions of the Textus Receptus. The common faith however restrained them from omitting those words since they were found in the Great Bible and the Bishops' Bible. Later research produced evidence that they should be part of inspired Scripture because of the testimony of a good number of Greek manuscripts including a and B. The italics should have been removed in the reprints of the KJV but unfortunately escaped the attention of the printers.

	==Greek==		==Greek==

Nick at 12:27, 3 November 2018

2018-11-03T12:27:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:27, 3 November 2018
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	{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}		{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}

	* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[2192\|does]] [[3761\|not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]] [[2192\|has] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].		* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[2192\|does]] [[3761\|not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]] [[2192\|has]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].

	{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}		{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}

Nick at 12:25, 3 November 2018

2018-11-03T12:25:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:25, 3 November 2018
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	{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}		{{King James Version Pure Cambridge Edition Footer}}

	* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[2192\|does]] [[3761\|not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father~~]] [[3761\|either~~]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].		* '''[[1 John 2:23 King James Version 2016\|1 John 2:23]]''' [[3956\|Whoever]] [[720\|denies]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]], [[2192\|does]] [[3761\|not]] [[2192\|have]] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]]: [[3670\|but he who acknowledges]] [[3588\|the]] [[5207\|Son]] [[2192\|has] [[3588\|the]] [[3962\|Father]] [[2532\|also]].

	{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}		{{King James Version 2016 Edition}}