Johannine Comma and Tertullian - Revision history

Nick at 08:30, 8 October 2025

2025-10-08T08:30:29Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:30, 8 October 2025
Line 28:		Line 28:
	Tertullian also said:		Tertullian also said:

	:For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, '''<u>we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith</u>''' whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the '''<u>promise of salvation under three witnesses</u>''', there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, '''<u>wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,)</u>''' there is the Church, which is a body of three.”[https://~~www~~.~~newadvent~~.org/~~fathers~~/~~0321~~.~~htm~~]		:For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, '''<u>we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith</u>''' whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the '''<u>promise of salvation under three witnesses</u>''', there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, '''<u>wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,)</u>''' there is the Church, which is a body of three.”[https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Nicene_and_Post-Nicene_Fathers:_Series_II/Volume_VII/S._Cyril/Introduction/Ceremonies_of_Baptism_and_Chrism]

	==References==		==References==

Nick at 08:18, 8 October 2025

2025-10-08T08:18:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:18, 8 October 2025
Line 28:		Line 28:
	Tertullian also said:		Tertullian also said:

	:For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, '''<u>we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith</u>''' whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the '''<u>promise of salvation under three witnesses</u>''', there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, '''<u>wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,)</u>''' there is the Church, which is a body of three.”		:For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, '''<u>we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith</u>''' whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the '''<u>promise of salvation under three witnesses</u>''', there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, '''<u>wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,)</u>''' there is the Church, which is a body of three.”[https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0321.htm]

	==References==		==References==

Nick at 08:15, 8 October 2025

2025-10-08T08:15:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:15, 8 October 2025
Line 25:		Line 25:
	:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.		:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.
	[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter		[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter

			Tertullian also said:

			:For if in the mouth of three witnesses every word shall stand: — while, through the benediction, '''<u>we have the same (three) as witnesses of our faith</u>''' whom we have as sureties of our salvation too— how much more does the number of the divine names suffice for the assurance of our hope likewise! Moreover, after the pledging both of the attestation of faith and the '''<u>promise of salvation under three witnesses</u>''', there is added, of necessity, mention of the Church; inasmuch as, '''<u>wherever there are three, (that is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,)</u>''' there is the Church, which is a body of three.”

	==References==		==References==

Nick at 08:09, 8 October 2025

2025-10-08T08:09:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:09, 8 October 2025
Line 1:		Line 1:
	[[image:Tertullian.jpg\|250px\|thumb\|right\|Tertullian]]		[[image:Tertullian.jpg\|250px\|thumb\|right\|Tertullian]]
	[[Tertullian]] ([[155 AD\|155]] - [[245 AD\|245]]) makes a ~~truncated~~ reference to the Comma ~~possibly~~ around [[200 AD]]:		[[Tertullian]] ([[155 AD\|155]] - [[245 AD\|245]]) makes a clear reference to the Comma around [[200 AD]] where he mentions the three members of the Trinity and then says ''which three are one'':

	:"Ita connexus Patris in Filio et Filii in Paracleto, tres efficit coharentes, alterum ex altere, '''<u>qui tres unum sunt</u>''', non unus, quomodo dictum est, Ego et Pater unum sumus." (Against Praxeas XXV).		:"Ita connexus Patris in Filio et Filii in Paracleto, tres efficit coharentes, alterum ex altere, '''<u>qui tres unum sunt</u>''', non unus, quomodo dictum est, Ego et Pater unum sumus." (Against Praxeas XXV).

Nick at 08:06, 8 October 2025

2025-10-08T08:06:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:06, 8 October 2025
Line 14:		Line 14:
	References from Tertullian in ''De Pudicitia'' 21:16 (On Modesty):		References from Tertullian in ''De Pudicitia'' 21:16 (On Modesty):

	:The Church, in the peculiar and the most excellent sense, is the Holy Ghost, in which the Three are One, and therefore the whole union of those who agree in this belief (viz. that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one), is named the Church, after its founder and sanctifier (the Holy Ghost).~~<sup>[]</sup>~~		:The Church, in the peculiar and the most excellent sense, is the Holy Ghost, in which the Three are One, and therefore the whole union of those who agree in this belief (viz. that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one), is named the Church, after its founder and sanctifier (the Holy Ghost).

	and ''De Baptismo'':		and ''De Baptismo'':

Nick at 10:34, 6 February 2023

2023-02-06T10:34:13Z

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 Daniel McCarthy, also referencing the views of Wetstein and Nicholas Wiseman, offers an exegesis that the three heavenly witnesses are implied by context. [[Georg Strecker]] comments cautiously "An initial echo of the ''Comma Johanneum'' occurs as early as Tertullian Adv. Pax. 25.1 (CChr 2.1195; written ca. 215). In his commentary on John 16:14 he writes that the Father, Son, and Paraclete are one (''unum''), but not one person (''unus''). However, this passage cannot be regarded as a certain attestation of the ''Comma Johanneum.''"
 In the book ''The Text and Canon of the New Testament'' by Alexander Souter, he states:
 :Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.
 [https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter
 [[Category: Omissions that effect the deity of Christ]]

Nick at 13:01, 21 August 2021

2021-08-21T13:01:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:01, 21 August 2021
Line 16:		Line 16:
	[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter		[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter

	[[Category: Omissions that effect the ~~diety~~ of Christ]]		[[Category: Omissions that effect the deity of Christ]]
	[[Category:Trinitarianism]]		[[Category:Trinitarianism]]
	[[Category:Comma Johanneum]]		[[Category:Comma Johanneum]]

Nick at 12:57, 21 August 2021

2021-08-21T12:57:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:57, 21 August 2021
Line 6:		Line 6:
	:"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, '''<u>which three are one</u>''', not one [person], as it is said, "I and my Father are One.""		:"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, '''<u>which three are one</u>''', not one [person], as it is said, "I and my Father are One.""

	Tertullian's use of ''tres unum sunt'' has been seen by many commentators as supporting authenticity, a textual connection to 1 John 5:7. "It appears to me very clear that Tertullian is quoting I. John v. 7. in the passage now under consideration."[https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/The_Ante_Nicene_Fathers/bu-pvKBmXhAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22It+appears+to+me+very+clear+that+Tertullian+is+quoting+I.+John+v.+7.+in+the+passage+now+under+consideration.%22&pg=PA631&printsec=frontcover 1]		Tertullian's use of ''tres unum sunt'' has been seen by many commentators as supporting authenticity, a textual connection to 1 John 5:7. "It appears to me very clear that Tertullian is quoting I. John v. 7. in the passage now under consideration."[https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/The_Ante_Nicene_Fathers/bu-pvKBmXhAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22It+appears+to+me+very+clear+that+Tertullian+is+quoting+I.+John+v.+7.+in+the+passage+now+under+consideration.%22&pg=PA631&printsec=frontcover ''The Anti-Nicean Fathers Volume III, Rev. Alexander Roberts, P. 631]

	Proponents of authenticity emphasize the corroborative nature of examining the evidences of the time as one unit, including the Cyprian quotes and the Old Latin mss. "… the testimony of these early fathers must stand and fall together; as St. Cyprian obviously follows his master Tertullian." Daniel McCarthy, also referencing the views of Wetstein and Nicholas Wiseman, offers an exegesis that the three heavenly witnesses are implied by context. [[~~:de:Georg Strecker\|~~Georg Strecker]] comments cautiously "An initial echo of the ''Comma Johanneum'' occurs as early as Tertullian Adv. Pax. 25.1 (CChr 2.1195; written ca. 215). In his commentary on John 16:14 he writes that the Father, Son, and Paraclete are one (''unum''), but not one person (''unus''). However, this passage cannot be regarded as a certain attestation of the ''Comma Johanneum.''"		Proponents of authenticity emphasize the corroborative nature of examining the evidences of the time as one unit, including the Cyprian quotes and the Old Latin mss. "… the testimony of these early fathers must stand and fall together; as St. Cyprian obviously follows his master Tertullian." [https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/An_inquiry_into_the_integrity_of_the_Gre/FF4UAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22the+testimony+of+these+early+fathers+must+stand+and+fall+together%3B+as+St.+Cyprian+obviously+follows+his+master+Tertullian%22&pg=PA297&printsec=frontcover ''An inquiry into the integrity of the Greek Vulgate or Received Text'' P. 297, Rev Frederick Nolan, 1815]

			Daniel McCarthy, also referencing the views of Wetstein and Nicholas Wiseman, offers an exegesis that the three heavenly witnesses are implied by context. [[Georg Strecker]] comments cautiously "An initial echo of the ''Comma Johanneum'' occurs as early as Tertullian Adv. Pax. 25.1 (CChr 2.1195; written ca. 215). In his commentary on John 16:14 he writes that the Father, Son, and Paraclete are one (''unum''), but not one person (''unus''). However, this passage cannot be regarded as a certain attestation of the ''Comma Johanneum.''"

	In the book ''The Text and Canon of the New Testament'' by Alexander Souter, he states:		In the book ''The Text and Canon of the New Testament'' by Alexander Souter, he states:
	:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.		:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.
	[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter		[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter

			[[Category: Omissions that effect the diety of Christ]]
			[[Category:Trinitarianism]]
			[[Category:Comma Johanneum]]
			[[Category:Johannine Comma]]

			{{Article Index Johannine Comma}}
			{{Donate}}

Nick at 12:47, 21 August 2021

2021-08-21T12:47:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:47, 21 August 2021
Line 6:		Line 6:
	:"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, '''<u>which three are one</u>''', not one [person], as it is said, "I and my Father are One.""		:"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent persons, one from the other, '''<u>which three are one</u>''', not one [person], as it is said, "I and my Father are One.""

	Tertullian's use of ''tres unum sunt'' has been seen by many commentators as supporting authenticity, a textual connection to 1 John 5:7. "It appears to me very clear that Tertullian is quoting I. John v. 7. in the passage now under consideration." Proponents of authenticity emphasize the corroborative nature of examining the evidences of the time as one unit, including the Cyprian quotes and the Old Latin mss. "… the testimony of these early fathers must stand and fall together; as St. Cyprian obviously follows his master Tertullian." Daniel McCarthy, also referencing the views of Wetstein and Nicholas Wiseman, offers an exegesis that the three heavenly witnesses are implied by context. [[:de:Georg Strecker\|Georg Strecker]] comments cautiously "An initial echo of the ''Comma Johanneum'' occurs as early as Tertullian Adv. Pax. 25.1 (CChr 2.1195; written ca. 215). In his commentary on John 16:14 he writes that the Father, Son, and Paraclete are one (''unum''), but not one person (''unus''). However, this passage cannot be regarded as a certain attestation of the ''Comma Johanneum.''"		Tertullian's use of ''tres unum sunt'' has been seen by many commentators as supporting authenticity, a textual connection to 1 John 5:7. "It appears to me very clear that Tertullian is quoting I. John v. 7. in the passage now under consideration."[https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/The_Ante_Nicene_Fathers/bu-pvKBmXhAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22It+appears+to+me+very+clear+that+Tertullian+is+quoting+I.+John+v.+7.+in+the+passage+now+under+consideration.%22&pg=PA631&printsec=frontcover 1]

			Proponents of authenticity emphasize the corroborative nature of examining the evidences of the time as one unit, including the Cyprian quotes and the Old Latin mss. "… the testimony of these early fathers must stand and fall together; as St. Cyprian obviously follows his master Tertullian." Daniel McCarthy, also referencing the views of Wetstein and Nicholas Wiseman, offers an exegesis that the three heavenly witnesses are implied by context. [[:de:Georg Strecker\|Georg Strecker]] comments cautiously "An initial echo of the ''Comma Johanneum'' occurs as early as Tertullian Adv. Pax. 25.1 (CChr 2.1195; written ca. 215). In his commentary on John 16:14 he writes that the Father, Son, and Paraclete are one (''unum''), but not one person (''unus''). However, this passage cannot be regarded as a certain attestation of the ''Comma Johanneum.''"

	In the book ''The Text and Canon of the New Testament'' by Alexander Souter, he states:		In the book ''The Text and Canon of the New Testament'' by Alexander Souter, he states:
	:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.		:Tertullian's regular practice was to use the Greek original and to translate for himself.' But, in addition to his actual mention of existing Latin translations, it is clear that he sometimes used them himself.
	[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter		[https://archive.org/details/textandcanonnew00soutgoog/page/n50/mode/2up/search/Tertullian's+regular The Text and Canon of the New Testament] by Alexander Souter

Nick at 12:39, 21 August 2021

2021-08-21T12:39:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:39, 21 August 2021
Line 1:		Line 1:
			[[image:Tertullian.jpg\|250px\|thumb\|right\|Tertullian]]
	[[Tertullian]] ([[155 AD\|155]] - [[245 AD\|245]]) makes a truncated reference to the Comma possibly around [[200 AD]]:		[[Tertullian]] ([[155 AD\|155]] - [[245 AD\|245]]) makes a truncated reference to the Comma possibly around [[200 AD]]: