Revelation 1:8 - Revision history

Nick: /* Joseph Bryennios */

2025-10-31T20:06:39Z

Joseph Bryennios

←Older revision		Revision as of 20:06, 31 October 2025
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	====Joseph Bryennios====		====Joseph Bryennios====
	Joseph Bryennios (lived around 1350 – 1431/38):		Joseph Bryennios (lived around 1350 – 1431/38):
-	:Θεός ἐστιν ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ~~ἐρχόμενος·~~ τὸ α, καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος. Θεός ἐστι Κύριος Θεός, καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν αὐτοῦ ὄνομα, καθὼς ποὺ αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τοῦ προφήτου ὁρίζεται λέγων· «ἐγὼ εἰμι Κύριος ὁ Θεός, τοῦτό μου ἐστιν ὄνομα», τὸ ὑπὲρ πᾶν ὄνομα.	+	:Θεός ἐστιν '''<u>ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος</u>'''· '''<u>τὸ α, καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος</u>'''. Θεός ἐστι Κύριος Θεός, καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν αὐτοῦ ὄνομα, καθὼς ποὺ αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τοῦ προφήτου ὁρίζεται λέγων· «ἐγὼ εἰμι Κύριος ὁ Θεός, τοῦτό μου ἐστιν ὄνομα», τὸ ὑπὲρ πᾶν ὄνομα.

	Translated as:		Translated as:

-	God is He who is, and who was, and who is to come; the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is the Lord God, and this is His name, as He defines Himself through the prophet, saying, “I am the Lord God, this is My name,” the name above all.	+	:God is He who is, and who was, and who is to come; the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is the Lord God, and this is His name, as He defines Himself through the prophet, saying, “I am the Lord God, this is My name,” the name above all.

	[http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/orthodoxy/explanatory/iwshf_bryennios_logos_eis_thn_agian_triada.htm]		[http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/orthodoxy/explanatory/iwshf_bryennios_logos_eis_thn_agian_triada.htm]

Nick: /* Primasius */

2025-10-31T19:53:33Z

Primasius

←Older revision		Revision as of 19:53, 31 October 2025
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	====Primasius====		====Primasius====
	[[Primasius of Hadrumetum]] (died 560 AD) studied the exegesis of the Greeks while at Constantinople, and his fame is chiefly due to his commentary on Revelation. This work, divided into five books, is of importance both as a witness of the pre-Cyprian Latin text of the Book of Revelation used by the North African church, and as aiding in the reconstruction of the most influential Latin commentary on Revelation, the exegetical work of the Donatist Ticonius.		[[Primasius of Hadrumetum]] (died 560 AD) studied the exegesis of the Greeks while at Constantinople, and his fame is chiefly due to his commentary on Revelation. This work, divided into five books, is of importance both as a witness of the pre-Cyprian Latin text of the Book of Revelation used by the North African church, and as aiding in the reconstruction of the most influential Latin commentary on Revelation, the exegetical work of the Donatist Ticonius.
		+
		+	====Joseph Bryennios====
		+	Joseph Bryennios (lived around 1350 – 1431/38):
		+	:Θεός ἐστιν ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος· τὸ α, καὶ τὸ ω, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος. Θεός ἐστι Κύριος Θεός, καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν αὐτοῦ ὄνομα, καθὼς ποὺ αὐτὸς ἑαυτὸν διὰ τοῦ προφήτου ὁρίζεται λέγων· «ἐγὼ εἰμι Κύριος ὁ Θεός, τοῦτό μου ἐστιν ὄνομα», τὸ ὑπὲρ πᾶν ὄνομα.
		+
		+	Translated as:
		+
		+	God is He who is, and who was, and who is to come; the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is the Lord God, and this is His name, as He defines Himself through the prophet, saying, “I am the Lord God, this is My name,” the name above all.
		+
		+	[http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/orthodoxy/explanatory/iwshf_bryennios_logos_eis_thn_agian_triada.htm]

	====Giannozzo Manetti's Manuscript====		====Giannozzo Manetti's Manuscript====

Nick at 13:46, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:46:22Z

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	This is translated into Greek as:		This is translated into Greek as:
	:Εν τω μεταξύ αυτή ας είναι η προετοιμασμένη απόκρισή μου κατά εκείνων που ισχυρίζονται από την Αποκάλυψη του Ιωάννη: '''<u>"Εγώ είμαι ο Κύριος, εκείνος που είναι και που ήταν και που έρχεται, ο Παντοκράτορας",</u>''' και από οπουδήποτε αλλού όπου νομίζουν ότι ο χαρακτηρισμός "παντοκράτορας" δεν είναι αρμόζων για τον Γιο· σαν να μην ήταν εκείνος που έρχεται παντοκράτορας, καθώς ο Γιος του Παντοκράτορα δεν είναι λιγότερο παντοκράτορας απ' ό,τι ο Γιος του Θεού είναι θεός.[https://e-homoreligiosus.blogspot.com/2010/06/tertullian-names-of-father-son.html]		:Εν τω μεταξύ αυτή ας είναι η προετοιμασμένη απόκρισή μου κατά εκείνων που ισχυρίζονται από την Αποκάλυψη του Ιωάννη: '''<u>"Εγώ είμαι ο Κύριος, εκείνος που είναι και που ήταν και που έρχεται, ο Παντοκράτορας",</u>''' και από οπουδήποτε αλλού όπου νομίζουν ότι ο χαρακτηρισμός "παντοκράτορας" δεν είναι αρμόζων για τον Γιο· σαν να μην ήταν εκείνος που έρχεται παντοκράτορας, καθώς ο Γιος του Παντοκράτορα δεν είναι λιγότερο παντοκράτορας απ' ό,τι ο Γιος του Θεού είναι θεός.[https://e-homoreligiosus.blogspot.com/2010/06/tertullian-names-of-father-son.html]
-		+	[[Image:Erasmus Tertullian.JPG\|300px\|thumb\|right\|Footnote in Erasmus' Annotaions of the New Testament where he mentions the examination of Tertullian]]
	Erasmus makes mention in his 1527 Edition that he read Tertullian.		Erasmus makes mention in his 1527 Edition that he read Tertullian.

Nick: /* Tertullian Against Praxaes chapter 17 */

2025-09-05T13:44:28Z

Tertullian Against Praxaes chapter 17

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:44, 5 September 2025
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	This is translated into Greek as:		This is translated into Greek as:
	:Εν τω μεταξύ αυτή ας είναι η προετοιμασμένη απόκρισή μου κατά εκείνων που ισχυρίζονται από την Αποκάλυψη του Ιωάννη: '''<u>"Εγώ είμαι ο Κύριος, εκείνος που είναι και που ήταν και που έρχεται, ο Παντοκράτορας",</u>''' και από οπουδήποτε αλλού όπου νομίζουν ότι ο χαρακτηρισμός "παντοκράτορας" δεν είναι αρμόζων για τον Γιο· σαν να μην ήταν εκείνος που έρχεται παντοκράτορας, καθώς ο Γιος του Παντοκράτορα δεν είναι λιγότερο παντοκράτορας απ' ό,τι ο Γιος του Θεού είναι θεός.[https://e-homoreligiosus.blogspot.com/2010/06/tertullian-names-of-father-son.html]		:Εν τω μεταξύ αυτή ας είναι η προετοιμασμένη απόκρισή μου κατά εκείνων που ισχυρίζονται από την Αποκάλυψη του Ιωάννη: '''<u>"Εγώ είμαι ο Κύριος, εκείνος που είναι και που ήταν και που έρχεται, ο Παντοκράτορας",</u>''' και από οπουδήποτε αλλού όπου νομίζουν ότι ο χαρακτηρισμός "παντοκράτορας" δεν είναι αρμόζων για τον Γιο· σαν να μην ήταν εκείνος που έρχεται παντοκράτορας, καθώς ο Γιος του Παντοκράτορα δεν είναι λιγότερο παντοκράτορας απ' ό,τι ο Γιος του Θεού είναι θεός.[https://e-homoreligiosus.blogspot.com/2010/06/tertullian-names-of-father-son.html]
		+
		+	Erasmus makes mention in his 1527 Edition that he read Tertullian.

	====Origen====		====Origen====

Nick at 13:39, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:39:59Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:39, 5 September 2025
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	:For through Wisdom, which is Christ, God has power over all things, not only by the authority of a ruler, but also by the voluntary obedience of subjects. And that you may understand that the omnipotence of Father and Son is one and the same, as God and the Lord are one and the same with the Father, listen to the manner in which John speaks in the Apocalypse: "Thus saith the Lord God, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."[http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/origen122.html]		:For through Wisdom, which is Christ, God has power over all things, not only by the authority of a ruler, but also by the voluntary obedience of subjects. And that you may understand that the omnipotence of Father and Son is one and the same, as God and the Lord are one and the same with the Father, listen to the manner in which John speaks in the Apocalypse: "Thus saith the Lord God, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."[http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/origen122.html]
		+
		+	====Ambrose====
		+	In ''Ambrose on the Christian Faith'' he has:
		+
		+	:Behold, He comes, says the Scripture, with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they which pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of Him. Yea, amen. I am Alpha and Omega, says the Lord God, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty. (Ambrose on the Christian Faith 2.4 [35])

	====Chysostom====		====Chysostom====

Nick at 13:34, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:34:16Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:34, 5 September 2025
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	====Chysostom====		====Chysostom====
-	~~====Latin Vulgate====~~

	====Beatus of Liébana====		====Beatus of Liébana====
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	====Latin Manuscripts====		====Latin Manuscripts====
-	There are at least 5 Latin manuscripts which omit the reading of “God”, "Book of Armagh (9th cent.), a 10th century Beatus manuscript, De Rosa (11th cent.), Latin 588 (12/13th cent.), and Takamiya MS 104 (13th cent.)."	+	There are at least 5 Latin manuscripts which omit the reading of “God”, "Book of Armagh (9th cent.), a 10th century Beatus manuscript, De Rosa (11th cent.), [https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8442914x/f130.item.zoom Latin 588] (12/13th cent.), and [https://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/16371272?child_oid=16565995 Takamiya MS 104] (13th cent.)."

	[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]		[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]

Nick at 13:29, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:29:53Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:29, 5 September 2025
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	[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]		[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]
		+
		+	====Armenian====
		+	All Armenian versions follow the TR reading.

	====Complutensian Polyglot====		====Complutensian Polyglot====
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	:429 1894.		:429 1894.
	:About 5 of Hoskier's cursives. Armenian: an early ms. [https://www.scribd.com/document/450640138/Moorman-Jack-WHEN-THE-KJV-DEPARTS-FROM-THE-MAJORITY-TEXT]		:About 5 of Hoskier's cursives. Armenian: an early ms. [https://www.scribd.com/document/450640138/Moorman-Jack-WHEN-THE-KJV-DEPARTS-FROM-THE-MAJORITY-TEXT]
		+
		+	====Christopher Yetzer====
		+	Erasmus' Vulgate from his 4th edition vs. Eramsus' own translation from his 1516:
		+	:V: Ego sum Alpha & ω: principium & finis, dicit dn̄s deus qui est & qui erat:
		+	:E: Ego sum alpha & Ω, principium & finis, dicit dn̄s deus, ꝗ est, & ꝗ erat
		+	2814 Greek vs. Erasmus' 1516 Greek
		+	:M: λεγει κυριος ο θεος ο ων
		+	:E: λεγει ο κυριος ο ων
		+	Explain how any reasonable person would assume Erasmus made a mistake in his Greek but meant his Latin translation, instead of him making the mistake in his Latin by simply having copied the Vulgate? His Greek doesn't even match the Greek of 2814 if he did use it (he added an o before κυριος.) From the sources available I think the latter is far more likely and logical.

	====Thomas Ross====		====Thomas Ross====

Nick at 13:15, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:15:45Z

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	====Complutensian Polyglot====		====Complutensian Polyglot====
-	In Erasmus' Annotations from 1527 he amended his footnote at Revelation 1:8 and compared his text to the Complutensian Polyglot.	+	In Erasmus' Annotations from 1527 he amended his footnote at Revelation 1:8 and compared his text to the Complutensian Polyglot, disproving the silly notion that he made an error in this verse, which he didn't check later on:
-	:~~"Qui~~ primus est in re quapiam, etiam proverbio Graecis dicitur Alpha, ut apud Martialem, alpha penultatorum, & w... extrema est in ordine literarum. Qua de re copiosius aliquanto diximus in Chiliadibus nostris. Caeterum principium & finis non erat in Hispaniensi (Polyglott). Et rursum, Qui est, qui erat, & qui venturus est, totidem syllabis Graece scriptum est hic, ut paulo ante."	+	:“Qui primus est in re quapiam, etiam proverbio Graecis dicitur Alpha, ut apud Martialem, alpha penultatorum, & w... extrema est in ordine literarum. Qua de re copiosius aliquanto diximus in Chiliadibus nostris. Caeterum principium & finis non erat in Hispaniensi (Polyglott). Et rursum, Qui est, qui erat, & qui venturus est, totidem syllabis Graece scriptum est hic, ut paulo ante.”
	Translated as:		Translated as:
-	“He who is first in any matter is even by a Greek proverb called ‘Alpha,’ as in Martial: alpha penultatorum; and ‘omega’ is the last in the order of letters. On this matter we have spoken somewhat more fully in our Chiliads. However, ‘the beginning and the end’ was not in the Spanish [Polyglot]. And again, ‘He who is, who was, and who is to come’ is written here in Greek with just as many syllables as a little earlier.” (The Greek words are not filled in here)	+	:“He who is first in any matter is even by a Greek proverb called ‘Alpha,’ as in Martial: alpha penultatorum; and ‘omega’ is the last in the order of letters. On this matter we have spoken somewhat more fully in our Chiliads. However, ‘the beginning and the end’ was not in the Spanish [Polyglot]. And again, ‘He who is, who was, and who is to come’ is written here in Greek with just as many syllables as a little earlier.” (The Greek words are not filled in here)

	====Ethiopic====		====Ethiopic====

Nick at 13:13, 5 September 2025

2025-09-05T13:13:16Z

←Older revision		Revision as of 13:13, 5 September 2025
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	:Revelation 1:8 (NIV) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," '''<u>(omit)</u>''' says the Lord '''<u>God</u>''', "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."		:Revelation 1:8 (NIV) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," '''<u>(omit)</u>''' says the Lord '''<u>God</u>''', "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
		+
		+	It is a common anecdote that Erasmus only used one mss for Revelation. The ms Delitzsch found is mopst certainly not the one Erasmus used. Delitzsch' has six verses missing at the end of his ms whereas Erasmus only amended a “few words” from the Latin, (not 136 words) and was very clear about the words in 22:19 in which spotted parablepsis in verse 19 in the ''Greek'' which would be utterly impossible if he lacked 16-22. So as with most of the critical text study into Revelation, it is suspect from the beginning, and thus leads to illogical conclusions.

	===ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος===		===ἀρχὴ καὶ τέλος===
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	====Chysostom====		====Chysostom====
		+	====Latin Vulgate====

	====Beatus of Liébana====		====Beatus of Liébana====
Line 137:		Line 140:

	[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]		[https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/bav_pal_lat_45/0323/image,info Vatikan, Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Pal. lat. 45]
		+
		+	====Complutensian Polyglot====
		+	In Erasmus' Annotations from 1527 he amended his footnote at Revelation 1:8 and compared his text to the Complutensian Polyglot.
		+	:"Qui primus est in re quapiam, etiam proverbio Graecis dicitur Alpha, ut apud Martialem, alpha penultatorum, & w... extrema est in ordine literarum. Qua de re copiosius aliquanto diximus in Chiliadibus nostris. Caeterum principium & finis non erat in Hispaniensi (Polyglott). Et rursum, Qui est, qui erat, & qui venturus est, totidem syllabis Graece scriptum est hic, ut paulo ante."
		+	Translated as:
		+	“He who is first in any matter is even by a Greek proverb called ‘Alpha,’ as in Martial: alpha penultatorum; and ‘omega’ is the last in the order of letters. On this matter we have spoken somewhat more fully in our Chiliads. However, ‘the beginning and the end’ was not in the Spanish [Polyglot]. And again, ‘He who is, who was, and who is to come’ is written here in Greek with just as many syllables as a little earlier.” (The Greek words are not filled in here)

	====Ethiopic====		====Ethiopic====

Nick: /* Origen */

2025-09-05T12:58:12Z

Origen

←Older revision		Revision as of 12:58, 5 September 2025
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	====Origen====		====Origen====
		+	Origen said:
		+
		+	:For through Wisdom, which is Christ, God has power over all things, not only by the authority of a ruler, but also by the voluntary obedience of subjects. And that you may understand that the omnipotence of Father and Son is one and the same, as God and the Lord are one and the same with the Father, listen to the manner in which John speaks in the Apocalypse: "Thus saith the Lord God, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."[http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/origen122.html]

	====Chysostom====		====Chysostom====