Titus 2:13 - Revision history

Nick at 04:35, 13 May 2020

Nick — Wed, 13 May 2020 04:35:33 GMT

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		+	{{Verses in Titus 2}}
	* '''[[Titus 2:13 Greek NT: Beza's Textus Receptus (1598)\|ΠΡΟΣ ΤΙΤΟΝ 2:13]]''' [[4327\|προσδεχόμενοι]] [[3588\|τὴν]] [[3107\|μακαρίαν]] [[1680\|ἐλπίδα]] [[2532\|καὶ]] [[2015\|ἐπιφάνειαν]] [[3588\|τῆς]] [[1391\|δόξης]] [[3588\|τοῦ]] [[3173\|μεγάλου]] [[2316\|θεοῦ]] [[2532\|καὶ]] [[4990\|σωτῆρος]] [[1473\|ἡμῶν]] [[2424\|Ἰησοῦ]] [[5547\|Χριστοῦ]]		* '''[[Titus 2:13 Greek NT: Beza's Textus Receptus (1598)\|ΠΡΟΣ ΤΙΤΟΝ 2:13]]''' [[4327\|προσδεχόμενοι]] [[3588\|τὴν]] [[3107\|μακαρίαν]] [[1680\|ἐλπίδα]] [[2532\|καὶ]] [[2015\|ἐπιφάνειαν]] [[3588\|τῆς]] [[1391\|δόξης]] [[3588\|τοῦ]] [[3173\|μεγάλου]] [[2316\|θεοῦ]] [[2532\|καὶ]] [[4990\|σωτῆρος]] [[1473\|ἡμῶν]] [[2424\|Ἰησοῦ]] [[5547\|Χριστοῦ]]

Nick: /* Kenneth Weust */

Nick — Sat, 11 Nov 2017 14:08:59 GMT

Kenneth Weust

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	:The translation given to us by the KJV in Titus 2.13 and 1 Peter 1.1 is a literal translation. It also preserves the figure hendiadys. The modern translations frequently omit Greek and Hebrew words and remove the figure hendiadys. At times they translate literally and at times interpretively and criticize the KJV translators for doing the same. MJP also has done this in the tract under discussion. Modern translators add words and delete words and criticize the KJV translators for doing the same. MJP is in bad company. Evil communications corrupt good manners.		:The translation given to us by the KJV in Titus 2.13 and 1 Peter 1.1 is a literal translation. It also preserves the figure hendiadys. The modern translations frequently omit Greek and Hebrew words and remove the figure hendiadys. At times they translate literally and at times interpretively and criticize the KJV translators for doing the same. MJP also has done this in the tract under discussion. Modern translators add words and delete words and criticize the KJV translators for doing the same. MJP is in bad company. Evil communications corrupt good manners.

-	====Kenneth ~~Weust~~====	+	====Kenneth Wuest====
-	Kenneth ~~Weust~~ stated:	+	Kenneth Wuest stated:
	:In Titus 2:13 we have “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” We find the same construction in the Greek, and the same rule of grammar requires us to interpret the phrase as teaching that Jesus Christ is the great God. Since the Greek word for “and” should be translated by the word “even” where the context demands such a meaning, we are justified in rendering the phrase “the great God, even our Saviour Jesus Christ,” for the grammatical construction demands that the two expressions, “the great God,” and “Saviour Jesus Christ,” refer to one individual. The word “even” brings out this meaning. The translation could also read, “our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.” Thus the rules of Greek grammar teach the deity of Jesus Christ. (Kenneth Weust’s Treasures from the Greek New Testament .p. 33 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1945))		:In Titus 2:13 we have “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” We find the same construction in the Greek, and the same rule of grammar requires us to interpret the phrase as teaching that Jesus Christ is the great God. Since the Greek word for “and” should be translated by the word “even” where the context demands such a meaning, we are justified in rendering the phrase “the great God, even our Saviour Jesus Christ,” for the grammatical construction demands that the two expressions, “the great God,” and “Saviour Jesus Christ,” refer to one individual. The word “even” brings out this meaning. The translation could also read, “our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.” Thus the rules of Greek grammar teach the deity of Jesus Christ. (Kenneth Weust’s Treasures from the Greek New Testament .p. 33 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1945))

Nick: /* Commentary */

Nick — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 17:30:44 GMT

Commentary

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	==Commentary==		==Commentary==
-	The original 1611 KJV ~~inclided~~ a comma after God which is not in post 1769 editions:	+	The original 1611 KJV included a comma after God which is not in post 1769 editions:
	:Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God, and our Sauiour Iesus Christ,		:Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God, and our Sauiour Iesus Christ,

Nick: /* Benjamin Hall Kennedy */

Nick — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:14:46 GMT

Benjamin Hall Kennedy

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	====Benjamin Hall Kennedy====		====Benjamin Hall Kennedy====
-	Steven Avery ~~mentions~~ Benjamin Hall Kennedy (1804-1899) who was one of the committee members on the revision that was railroaded into the Westcott-Hort recension. In discussing Titus 2:13, he made a similar excellent point (although I would not use the word "persons purpose distinct") :	+	In the [http://www.purebibleforum.com/showthread.php?t=50 Pure Bible Forum] Steven Avery says of Kennedy:
		+
		+	Benjamin Hall Kennedy (1804-1899) who was one of the committee members on the revision that was railroaded into the Westcott-Hort recension. In discussing Titus 2:13, he made a similar excellent point (although I would not use the word "persons purpose distinct") :

	:As to the passage in Titus, since I believe it to be rightly rendered by the translators of 1611,1 had no occasion to notice it in 1861. But it now becomes a plain though painful duty to contend against the change made by the majority of the Revisers, which seems to me a blot on our work.		:As to the passage in Titus, since I believe it to be rightly rendered by the translators of 1611,1 had no occasion to notice it in 1861. But it now becomes a plain though painful duty to contend against the change made by the majority of the Revisers, which seems to me a blot on our work.

Nick: /* John Calvin */

Nick — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:13:39 GMT

John Calvin

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	:Hence we learn, first, that there is nothing that ought to render us more active or cheerful in doing good than the hope of the future resurrection; and, secondly, that believers ought always to have their eyes fixed on it, that they may not grow weary in the right course; for, if we do not wholly depend upon it, we shall continually be carried away to the vanities of the world. But, since the coming of the Lord to judgment might excite terror in us, Christ is held out to us as our “Savior,” who will also be our judge.		:Hence we learn, first, that there is nothing that ought to render us more active or cheerful in doing good than the hope of the future resurrection; and, secondly, that believers ought always to have their eyes fixed on it, that they may not grow weary in the right course; for, if we do not wholly depend upon it, we shall continually be carried away to the vanities of the world. But, since the coming of the Lord to judgment might excite terror in us, Christ is held out to us as our “Savior,” who will also be our judge.
		+
		+	====Benjamin Hall Kennedy====
		+	Steven Avery mentions Benjamin Hall Kennedy (1804-1899) who was one of the committee members on the revision that was railroaded into the Westcott-Hort recension. In discussing Titus 2:13, he made a similar excellent point (although I would not use the word "persons purpose distinct") :
		+
		+	:As to the passage in Titus, since I believe it to be rightly rendered by the translators of 1611,1 had no occasion to notice it in 1861. But it now becomes a plain though painful duty to contend against the change made by the majority of the Revisers, which seems to me a blot on our work.
		+
		+	:Let me first set down a state of facts, as preliminary to the whole discussion.
		+
		+	::(1) St Paul's thirteen epistles contain more than 200 passages, in which the names of God (the Father) and Christ (under various titles) appear in mutual relation, as names of persons purposely distinct. See the list at foot*. [http://books.google.com/books?id=lLQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA16 The divinity of Christ, a sermon. With an appendix on Romans ix. 5, and Titus ii. 13 (1883)]
		+
		+	[[Image:Benjamin Hall Kennedy Sharp.jpg\|center]]

	===Anti KJV Reading===		===Anti KJV Reading===

Nick at 09:09, 12 August 2016

Nick — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:09:57 GMT

Show changes

Beza 1598: /* External Links */

Beza 1598 — Sat, 12 Mar 2016 12:26:31 GMT

External Links

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	==External Links==		==External Links==
	* [http://brandplucked.webs.com/jameswhitetitus213.htm James White and Titus 2:13 "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"] by [[Will Kinney]]		* [http://brandplucked.webs.com/jameswhitetitus213.htm James White and Titus 2:13 "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"] by [[Will Kinney]]
		+
		+	{{Donate}}

Nick: /* Hippolytus of Rome */

Nick — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:30:03 GMT

Hippolytus of Rome

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	Hippolytus of Rome in his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist stated:		Hippolytus of Rome in his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist stated:

-	:These things, then, I have set shortly before thee, O Theophilus, drawing them from Scripture itself, in order that, maintaining in faith what is written, and anticipating the things that are to be, thou mayest keep thyself void of offence both toward God and toward men, "looking for that blessed hope and appearing of our God and Saviour," when, having raised the saints among us, He will rejoice with them, glorifying the Father. To Him be the glory unto the endless ages of the ages. Amen.	+	:These things, then, I have set shortly before thee, O Theophilus, drawing them from Scripture itself, in order that, maintaining in faith what is written, and anticipating the things that are to be, thou mayest keep thyself void of offence both toward God and toward men, "looking for that blessed hope and appearing of <u>our God and Saviour</u>," when, having raised the saints among us, He will rejoice with them, glorifying the Father. To Him be the glory unto the endless ages of the ages. Amen.

	==Pro KJV reading==		==Pro KJV reading==

Nick: /* Clement of Alexandria */

Nick — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:28:59 GMT

Clement of Alexandria

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	Clement of Alexandria mentioned in his Exhortation to Abandon the Impious Mysteries of Idolatry for the Adoration of the Divine Word and God the Father:		Clement of Alexandria mentioned in his Exhortation to Abandon the Impious Mysteries of Idolatry for the Adoration of the Divine Word and God the Father:

-	:This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man—the Author of all blessings to us; by whom we, being taught to live well, are sent on our way to life eternal. For, according to that inspired apostle of the Lord, “the grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us, that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for the blessed hope, and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”	+	:This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man—the Author of all blessings to us; by whom we, being taught to live well, are sent on our way to life eternal. For, according to that inspired apostle of the Lord, “the grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us, that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for the blessed hope, and appearing of the glory of <u>the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.</u>”

	:This is the New Song, the manifestation of the Word that was in the beginning, and before the beginning. The Saviour, who existed before, has in recent days appeared. He, who is in Him that truly is, has appeared; for the Word, who “was with God,” and by whom all things were created, has appeared as our Teacher. The Word, who in the beginning bestowed on us life as Creator when He formed us, taught us to live well when He appeared as our Teacher; that as God He might afterwards conduct us to the life which never ends.		:This is the New Song, the manifestation of the Word that was in the beginning, and before the beginning. The Saviour, who existed before, has in recent days appeared. He, who is in Him that truly is, has appeared; for the Word, who “was with God,” and by whom all things were created, has appeared as our Teacher. The Word, who in the beginning bestowed on us life as Creator when He formed us, taught us to live well when He appeared as our Teacher; that as God He might afterwards conduct us to the life which never ends.

Nick: /* Commentary */

Nick — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 06:25:59 GMT

Commentary

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	The assumption they did not know it is wrong. In Sharp’s book, one of the people whose comments he included in the book, Greek scholar Rev. Dr. T. Burgess, has Burgess saying concerning the first rule, “…though it was acknowledged and applied by Beza and others to some of the texts alleged by you, yet never so prominently…” (p. vii) So let it not be said that the 1611 translators translated as they did through ignorance of the rule. Granville Sharp had not yet been born, yet the principle of his grammatical axiom was known to them, yet not brought to the fore as Sharp brought it. Beza lived from 1519 to 1605. [The information concerning Beza I got from Rev. Richard Durham’s book, Granville Sharp’s Rule—Proving The Deity Of Christ by Greek Grammar (NJ: The Bible For Today, 1973)]		The assumption they did not know it is wrong. In Sharp’s book, one of the people whose comments he included in the book, Greek scholar Rev. Dr. T. Burgess, has Burgess saying concerning the first rule, “…though it was acknowledged and applied by Beza and others to some of the texts alleged by you, yet never so prominently…” (p. vii) So let it not be said that the 1611 translators translated as they did through ignorance of the rule. Granville Sharp had not yet been born, yet the principle of his grammatical axiom was known to them, yet not brought to the fore as Sharp brought it. Beza lived from 1519 to 1605. [The information concerning Beza I got from Rev. Richard Durham’s book, Granville Sharp’s Rule—Proving The Deity Of Christ by Greek Grammar (NJ: The Bible For Today, 1973)]
		+
		+	:"One wonders if White thinks saints and faithful brethren (Col.1:2) separates saints and faithful brethren, as if they were two different types. Or does he think God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Col.1:3) separates God from the Father, as if the Father were not God?" (Dr. Larry Bednar, KJV Textual Technology site)

	==Clement of Alexandria==		==Clement of Alexandria==